charged with using a weapon of mass destruction. i'm jake tapper and this is "the lead." the surviving terrorist suspect charged after facing a magistrate in his hospital room, the white house says he will not be tried as an enemy combatant. is that a mistake? we'll talk to a man who's been down this road before, former attorney general john ashcroft. was there a connection between the dead suspect and a chechen terror cell? the fbi questioned tamerlan and

take kaik came up with nothing years ago. two are arrested for a terror plot apparently linked to al qaeda. a moment of silence all across boston today as 2:50 p.m. eastern time, the precise moment of the terrorist attacks on the marathon here one week ago. "the lead" once again coming to you live from boston. a magistrate judge visited the suspect's hospital one looking at one count of using and conspiring to use a weapon of mass destruction in the u.s. and causing death and also one count of malicious destruction of property by using an explosive

device resulting in death. if convicted, it could mean the death penalty. he has been assigned a federal public defender, but the white house says he will not be labeled an enemy combatant. instead he will be tried in a civilian court. >> he will not be treated as an enemy combatant. we will prosecute this terrorist through our civilian system of justice. under u.s. law, the united states citizens cannot be tried in military commissions, and it is important to remember that since 9/11 we have used the federal court system to convict and incarcerate hundreds of terrorists. >> dzhokhar tsarnaev and his brother originally born in kyrgyzstan charged. tamerlan tsarnaev is dead after a shootout with police, dzhokhar has a gunshot wound to his neck

after police apprehended him friday night. a source with firsthand knowledge of the investigation tells cnn that dzhokhar tar neve is on a breathing ventilator and heavily sedated. as we talk about the suspects' future, we cannot forget about those who lost their lives. let's take time to recall them, chris tell krystle campbell, 8-year-old martin richard whose mom and sister were greefsly wounded and 23 year ode linzie lu a boston university graduate student from china. and then of course m.i.t. officer gunned down, 26-year-old sean collier. we're told vice president biden will attend a memorial service for him on wednesday. as we mentioned, dzhokhar tsarnaev won't be charged as an enemy combatant. he'll be prosecuted in the criminal justice system. is this the right move?

>> absolutely. it's actually a no-brainer on so many levels. for one, this is a strong case so why would you abandon the sort of normal system of criminal justice? but for symbolic reasons. >> that. but also, as for the same reason they held off on mirandized him, to get as much information from him in case there are other plots. >> so this is where the question of what they can get out of him and what they can use in court are sort of different questions at this stage. they can ask him a lot of questions without mirandizing him, although we believe that he has been mirandized at this stage. and get information about him, about either impending threats or what hatched to his brother and what happened over the last week or years even. that doesn't need to be used against him in a court of law. that's what's so amazing about this complaint. the charge is not a terrorism charge. >> use of one weapon of mass destruction presumably because his brother used the other one. >> right. which is broadly defined in the law. it actually means any weapon that's not a firearm or firework. that's just a sort of way to

think about it. and by doing that, all they really need is an evidentiary case. so the debate about whether -- and the government does these cases all the time. they're good at it, strong at it, and then you resolve it. putting it through some other system because, you know, he's a kind of person, a terrorist or you want to do is symbolically would not only raise all sorts of legal questions but essentially i would have to say symbolically undermine what makes america a pretty good country, which is we have a system that can even convict the worst of the worst. >> we don't know yet, law enforcement has yet to present a case, whether or not this is the result of some sort of foreign organization. >> yes. >> we do not know. >> no. it's not in the complaint. >> it's not in the complaint. a lot of things aren't in the complaint, the m.i.t. police officer collier is not in the complaint. >> right. >> but if it is established that he was, that the tsarnaev brothers, were acting on behalf or in conjunction with a foreign

enemy organization, he could then be charged as an enemy combatant, right? that's something that could happen. >> enemy combatant you mean outside of a u.s. court that could happen. the administration is pretty confident they won't need that and they don't want to do that. i think part of what this sort of post-9/11 world is about is sort of reasserting the american judicial system over a lot of these terrorism cases. you can fight wars abroad, but here in the united states he is, after all, a u.s. citizen, therefore not covered by the military commissions act. so the one takeaway from the press conference today, though, was that they are leaving open other charges. that's just because the investigation is ongoing. but the complaint is pretty solid. it's evidentiary based. we don't have to get into motive orgy hadi or jihadist movement. >> thank you so much. speaking of press conferences, also breaking a short time ago, word of major terrorist arrests

north of the border. canadian police foiled a plot to derail a train. two men are under arrest, under surveillance for more than a year. u.s. homeland security and the fbi were also involved. i want to bring in paula newton who's on the phone from ottawa, canada. paula, what do we know about the case right now? >> well,s right now we no that -- montreal, 30 years old, was arrested as was a 35-year-old. a plot to derail trains, police are characterizing this as a real threat to kill people, hurt economy.and a threat to the you know, they are cautious in saying that this was an imminent threat but it was not an aimminent but no less a very real threat. what's interesting here, jake, is they refused to release any information regard the search warrants. i tell you they have a good handful of plots under surveillance right now, and i've been briefed on a few of them. what they do is they continue from the very instant they seize

on communication or anything that is suspicious, they then start to try and gain the authority to be able to bug their mobile phones, bug their homes, do whatever they need to do to keep the public safe. it seems to be what's happened at this point in time. they still say that the searches -- that the execution of those search warrants is ongoing, which is key what they find there. will they find explosives, the beginnings of a bomb, or will they find more stuff on computer hard drives, phone calls in question, things like that which would make the plot more aspirational. the other thing is, jake, they said this was aq supported from iran. they said it was supported and had guidance but refused to actually say what the character, what the nature of that was, and that is especially intriguing. intelligence officials have told me they've p been worried about that for several years. in fact, they worried about iran's influence but could never give me anything concrete that really worried them.

this would tend to point to something different, jake. >> paula, thank you so much. tom foreman joins us from washington, d.c., with more on this operation. tom, explain to us exactly, where did this all go down? >> this all happened mainly around toronto and montreal. you can see canada in here. what i've highlighted here are really the train routes run by the ia train system up there, an intercity -- typically the police up there release much less information than we're used to here. it doesn't mean they don't have the background of all of this. they just don't talk very much. the real target here apparently was train activity in and around the largest city here toronto, and if you zoom in, you can see it's a rail yard here, one of the main ones here, for via up there. these suspects apparently scouted out these locations, watched the comings and goings of trains, looked at the security system here, and had a real target of trying to hit

this system. why would that matter so much? well, because via carries more than 4 million people on trips every year up there in canada, and for a long time, jake, there's been talk about the idea that train stations are comparatively a soft target compared to airplanes. in fact, ever since 9/11, as air travel has been more and more locked into security, various people have said the real concern is going to be train stations because there are millions of people on them. think about this. we had train attacks in london, in mumbai, in south korea. so the fear for a long time has been there would be a plot like this and that it could actually have some kind of big impact on train travelers. and this route, the primary route for via, runs generally along the u.s. border. so if, in fact, this is al qaeda sponsored, if they prove all of that, you've got to know there's a lot of discussion going on about whether or not this is even testing ground, seeing how much can be hit here and how much could be carried across the border on u.s. train routes.

jake? >> all right, tom foreman. thank you. returning to the manhunt that shut down the city of boston for a day while to yous of police combed every corner, the big break came when a watertown man stepped outside for a smoke and spotted the suspect hiding in a boat trailered in his backyard. this picture posted on facebook was the first glimpse we got of the suspect in police custody. watertown police captain raymond dupree was among the first at the scene. he joins me now. first of all, david henneberry is the homeowner. you spent the night with him even after dzhokhar had been taken away. he must have been freaking out. that is unsettling. tell us about it. >> he was very nervous. he was very upset and just gathered in things and went elsewhere for the night. >> what did you tell him to reassure him, it's over, the guy's gcaught, that's it. >> i told him everything was

okay, i walked through the house with him, collected his personal belongings and made arrangements to stay elsewhere. i asked him to give me a call if he needed anything. >> when do police think that dzhokhar went into the boat, friday evening, sometime -- i'm sorry, was it friday early morning during the shootout and he te'ied there all day, or do we still not know? >> we're not sure. i mean, we speculate that where the boat was from where he abandoned the car and ran is not that far of a distance. so -- >> how far is it, about? >> three blocks. we speculate that he probably went through the backyards off the street and found the boat and got in it. that's just speculation at this point. >> how can you be sure -- i guess you've cleared it now -- friday night when you went to the house that there wfrnt any bombs, traps anything else going on there? >> we didn't until after he was -- the suspect was captured and then the fbi brought in some explosive teams to make sure there were no explosives in the

boat. >> and how -- tell us about how the watertown police department is dealing with this. i don't imagine a situation like this happens in watertown all that often. how are people dealing with the trauma? have you brought in counselors to talk to the officers? >> yes. the boston police have a stress debriefing team which has been helpful to us. the officers after the shooting spoke to the counselors before they went home. also we have the ash atf is providing a team also to come in tomorrow to talk to the officers as well. >> there are two mysteries from watertown that evening. you may not have the information or the ability to share. one is, it seems as though dzhokhar probably killed his older brother accidentally by running over him s. that your understanding of what happened? >> he ran over his brother. he was alive before he got run over, before he was run over. >> then lastly, the guy who was stripped naked and then later set free, do we have any idea who he was? >> i'm not privy to that

information at this time. i don't know who that was. >> captain dupruik, thank you so much. >> thank you for having us. >> thank you. terror on trial. up next, we'll hear from former attorney general john ashcroft about what he thinks should happen to boston bombing suspect dzhokhar tsarnaev. >> miranda warnings is probably a tem pet pest in a teapot here. the 2013 lexus gs. this is the pursuit of perfection. it's easy to follow the progress you're making toward all your financial goals. a quick glance, and you can see if you're on track. when the conversation turns to knowing where you stand, turn to us. wells fargo advisors. where you stand, turn to us. ♪ beep beep what?a score alert ♪if you set your phone to vibrate ♪ ♪ then it might alert your button flies all the ♪ ♪ girls and the guys wanna keep that credit score ♪

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recommending that dzhokhar tsarnaev be tried as an enemy combatant, or are criminal courts also okay with you? >> yes. the answer to that question is yes. fortunately, there is a mountain of evidence that would support either a state charge or a federal charge in the article iii courts, meaning the traditional criminal jurisdiction courts, and the evidence is so substantial that it probably doesn't matter whether or not anything he would say now to interrogators would be used against him. he's already -- the focus of so much hard evidence that the business about miranda warnings is probably a tempest in a teapot here. >> you were attorney general from 2001 through 2005. based on your experience, how common is it for the russian government to reach out to u.s. law feer law enforcement to say, keep an eye on this person, we think he may be up to no good?

does that happen a lot, or is it rare? >> i'm not in a position to say how many times any specific government has communicated to the united states government, but it's fair to say that w whenever we get such communications i think we want to take them very seriously. >> in 2011 the fbi was informed by the russian fsb, the successor organization to the kgb, that they were concerned about the older brother. the fbi says they looked into his communications, they interviewed him, they didn't find there to be anything that would pose a threat to public safety, and then the older brother went to russia, we presume, to chechnya, came back. should the fbi re-interviewed him after he came back? >> they took the matter seriously when it first came up, and obviously there was a very serious concern that we can see

in retrospect. and i would be particularly concerned about someone who visited an area like chechnya, if that's in fact what happened, especially in the light of the fact that chechnyan individuals have been involved in the war on terror pretty regularly against the united states and its operations overseas. >> talk about the precedence that might be relevant in this case against dzhokhar tsarnaev. you obviously were attorney general for a number of them. which do you see as being relevant and why? >> there doesn't seem to be any precedent which would prohibit the prosecution of this individual based on state violations, federal violations, and if the president were to determine this individual an enemy combatant based on the facts and if found out he had been involved with part of the war against the united states by terrorists overseas and could properly come to a conclusion

that he's an enemy combatant, then he might be adjudicated as a war criminal who violated the law of war, and he could be -- that matter could be tried by a military commission. >> lastly, attorney general ashcroft, based on what we know, do you think the fbi should have sought a fisa warrant so they could have electronically monitored tamerlan tsarnaev, and do you think this was in any way a failure by the fbi given they had been warned about him? >> anytime we have a situation like this we should take a careful look to see if there are ways that we could improve our performance. and if we had been able to intercept or interdict this operation at any point in the processes, lives could have been saved. if we had been able to prevent it totally we would have saved lives and the maiming of a lot

of innocent people. but even after the bomb was originally detonated, if we could have somehow been able to interrupt this prior to the killing of the m.i.t. police officer. >> attorney general john ashcroft, thanks so much for joining us. we really appreciate your time. >> thank you, jake. >> tsarnaev, it should be noted, was a naturalized american citizen. in an eerie coincidence, that ceremony took place at the boston garden on the 11th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, but the dates aren't picked by silt zens on the dates they'll be naturalized. today was the first day back to school for the children of west texas. we'll look at how a massive explosion turned their hometown into a disaster area.

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welcome back to "the lead." i'm jake tapper on downtown boston. all eyes have been on boston, but family members of the bombing suspects halfway around the world are playing a big role in the investigation. police are using them to piece together the state of mind of bomber number one and bomber number two. cnn's nick paton walsh spoke with an aunt of the suspects in da dagestan. >> reporter: she knew the alleged elder boston bomber as a child and saw tamerlan tsarnaev grow up and then leave for america. but strangest to his aunt was his return here last year a devout muslim. >> translator: they hadn't prayed before. they went to america. nobody taught him.

he learned everything himself. at the same time, we were happy about it because he didn't start doing drugs or alcohol. i mean, he doesn't speak to other women. >> reporter: she saw him for four of the six months he was here, and he went to chechnya twice. >> translator: yes, he went to chechnya for a couple of days. i don't know where those relatives lived. of i mean, the relatives from his father's side. >> reporter: as pictures of boston played out around the world, she reveals that she rang the boys to see if they were well but later that week they rang her allegedly when they were on the run just the day before taller lan died. the day before she said they spoke. it was like always, mommy, everything is fine, we're totally fine. mommy, that's what they call

he her. >> translator: we miss your warmth and your caress. tamerlan said, mommy, i love you. and dzhokhar's voice came from a distances, i love you, too, mommy. >> reporter: she watched the boys' father filmed here earlier in the week see them on the news for the first time. >> translator: and then for some reason he tells me, this is joe ar and tamerlan and points to the screen and says, here's tamerlan in the blue jacket and dzhokhar in the white jacket. and i say, anzor, these are the guys with the backpack, and these photos were shown. these can't be that. i don't know, these are my children. and then he grabs the tv screen and starts xraex iscreaming, it

be, it can't be happening, i don't believe it. children are dead. i would have shouted myself. >> reporter: nick paton walsh, cnn. >> it's another catastrophe that's been overshadowed by the terrorist attacks hoer s here boston, an enormous explosion in texas at a plant that obliterated a small town. the crater was left at the scene of the blast, the explosion killed 14 people, 10 of them first responders, including 5 of the town's 33 volunteer firefighters. we learned today that the president and first lady will attend a memorial service for them on thursday along with firefighters from across the country who did not know the victims but are bonded by their heroics. martin savidge is live for us in the town of west, texas. authorities just held a press conference. what's the latest, martin? >> reporter: jake, they're still focused on the crater which you mentioned. today there was some

sophisticated equipment 3d measuring they were using to gauge how wide it is, how deep it is. all of that critical evidence that could tell them more about what exploded. more importantly, they want to know why it exploded. they're focusing not so much on the blast but the fire that preceded it. they know 0 it was the fire that triggered the blast. so what causeded fire? that's the focus. the evidence they say is like processing a -- well, a forensic site or any site like, say, you were searching back in time digging carefully layer by layer, slow methodical work. some have said, well, what about reports of sloppy recordkeeping at that facility. investigators say they'll look at that, but now they're looking at the evidence that could perish, they want to get that stuff first. >> martin, we understand the blast did extensive damage to the city's infrastructure. tell us about that. >> reporter: right, it did. i mean, we've all heard that about 50, 75 buildings were severely damaged but much of the

to town's infrastructure has been damaged. there are a number of homes, perhaps several hundred that are suffering without water or limited water. the entire city is under eye boil water, a problem for a long time to come. even here at city hall, there is no water and there are port-a-pottys set up all over this community. >> martin, i wonder if there are people in texas who are conce concerned with the fact that so much of the attention of the media has been focused here on boston because of the terrorist attacks when actually there was much more loss of life in west, texas. are people upset about that, or are they just focused on recovering and they couldn't care less about media? >> reporter: well, they're not focused so much on measuring or comparing death tolls, but they have actually noticed what's been going on in boston. there has been an empathy in this community. they're focused on their

tragedy, but they realize their city went kind of through the same thing. not the same way. there were periods here of extreme fear. there were periods here of terror and of course now there are periods, just heading into it, for mourning. the same thing was true in boston. they realize whether it was a small town in texas or a big city on the eastern seaboard, they kind of went through a terrible week and in many ways they do feel a connection, if it's an emotional one. >> interesting. thank you, marty savidge. appreciate it. another big story we're keeping an eye on during this hour. make sure your phone has a full charge. those deep federal spending cuts, the furloughed air traffic controllers have now kicked in. while most airports are not reporting problems, some major hubs including lax where three fewer air traffic controllers had delays up to three hours. the faa says with fewer eyeballs, there will be better managed traffic. that's coming up next.

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welcome back to "the lead". i'm jake tapper live in boston. despite word the surviving bombing suspect is on a breathing ventilator and heavily sedated he has been charged. a federal magistrate judge visited his hospital room earlier today. he's looking at one count of using and conspiring to use a weapon of mass destruction in the u.s. and in causing death and also one count of malicious destruction of property by using an explosive device resulting in death. if convicted, it could mean the death penalty. the white house also says he will not be tried as an enemy can battant. he's listed in serious but stable condition at a local boston hospital but has not stopped authorities from charging him and pressing him for answers. a bullet wound in his neck, sources say that's what's keeping dzhokhar tsarnaev from voicing what could possibly have been going through his mind one

week ago when he and his brother allegedly bombed the boston marathon. but we do know he's regained at least some consciousness. sources tell cnn investigators have been questioning him since yesterday and that dzhokhar tsarnaev is communicated, responding to questions about public safety by nodding his head. though it's not clear what he has told authorities. >> people are focused on what he may be able to say, but there's also a lot of work to be done by the federal authorities and i'm sure what he is saying, if he is saying anything, is important but not the only piece of the investigation. >> we're also not yet sure about how he received his wound. it could have been in friday night's final shootout with police. thermal imaging showing dzhokhar tsarnaev in a boat in a watertown backyard. after 20 minutes, police moved in and took him alive. >> we have a million questions, and those questions need to be answered. >> or dzhokhar tsarnaev could

have been shot earlier in the violent showdown police sesay he and his older brother tamerlan tsarnaev had early friday morning in watertown. dzhokhar tsarnaev may have even killed his older brother by running over him in his haste to leave the scene. >> my understanding is his brother was run over and the other brother was driving the car when that happened. i don't know what the cause of death was and we won't know that until the meds examiner rules. >> also m.i.t. officer sean collier was killed by the brothers. they were said to be armed with handguns, and several explosives. police say neither brother was licensed to carry a gun in massachusetts. >> neither one had a license. younger brother by virtue of his age wouldn't be eligible for a license and we have no record of them ever applying. >> the tsarnaevs threw explosives at officers police say and had in their possession another pressure cooker bomb, like the ones believed to have been used in the terrorist attacks on the marathon. leading investigators to believe they were planning even more carnage.

>> i believe that the only reason that someone would have those in their possession would be to further attack people and cause more death and destruction. >> but the two would never get their chance to stage another terrorist attack. 26-year-old tamerlan tsarnaev lying dead, 19-year-old dzhokhar tsarnaev in custody, facing the prospect of the death penalty and the people of boston reclaiming their city. >> now just about trying to move on and put the pieces together and get ready for next year. >> today many people in boston went back to work for the first time since dzhokhar tsarnaev's capture and since the man hunt that paralyzed the city. hundreds lined up to say good-bye this morning at funeral services for krystle campbell, one of the three 0 killed in the terrorist attacks. later this evening, a memorial is planned for lingzi lu, the boston university graduate student from it china. also killed one week ago today. but life is moving forward here

again. mayor thomas menino announced a plan to reopen copley square, the site of the bombings, and today city buses flashed the unofficial slogan that has emerged from this nightmare -- "boston strong." as investigators attempt to pull critical information from the surviving bomb suspect, some members of the fbi could be in for a grilling of their own. senator dianne feinstein says fbi officials may be called in to testify before a special intelligence committee hearing as early as tomorrow. lawmakers want to know why the fbi didn't keep an eye on the older suspect despite warnings from the russian government as far back as 2011. the fbi got a tip from russia that tamerlan was a follower of a radical islamic group and they questioned him that year, interviewed him, but found, quote, no signs of terrorism activity, unquote. but his social media history shows otherwise. daniel benjamin is a former coordinator for counterterrorism

at the state department. daniel, thanks for joibing us. one of the group's investigators say tamerlan may, may, have had an interest in the caucasus emirates ce. what can you tell us about this group? >> from the primary radical chechen terrorist group since about 2007/2008, it's led by a man named dough co-umarev. it's been responsible for a number of bombings and killings in russia. it was designated under executive order 12334 when i was coordinator as a terrorist group, which mean that's we were eager to help the russians go after its financing. but, other than some harsh rhetor rhetoric, we have not seen it target the united states in the past. and frankly i would be surprised if they were widening their app atur to go after the u.s. right

now. >> a common thread, dan, that we've seen over the last decade is attacks or attempt at attacks being carried out by individuals who have recently moved to this country taking out their frustrations on their adoptive countries. for example, the attempted times square bomber. what kind of challenge did these type of terrorists present to counterterrorism officials as opposed to more traditional al qaeda type terrorists? >> well, not just in this country, you'll recall that in france just a couple of years ago a man named mohammed ma raw killed a lot of people in and around ta lose, also a case in holland in 2004 where he killed a famous artist. these are very, very difficult cases because if they're not maintaining connections with terrorist groups in other countries, then there are not a lot of leads to go on. sometimes these people will say things that will get reported by members of their community or others, or they'll do postings

that may cause some attention. but they're very, very hard to find, much like lone wolves in general. so this is one of the real challenges that counterterrorism officials face today, especially in law enmeforcement. >> and, dan, the u.s. has historically -- the u.s. government -- not always been willing to buy the russian liechb that chechnya is a breeding ground for extremists. u.s. officials just think they're trying to drag us into their war. do you think it's possible that that skepticism may have played a role in how the warning about tamerlan was handled. he was interviewed in 2011 but not followed up on in 2012. >> well, we know that chechnya is a breeding ground for extremists, but it's mostly been extremists who were targeting russians. and i think that one of the issues here is the sort of historic relationship between the fsb, the successor of the

kgb, and the fbi. so the fsb may give us a tip but doesn't give us much to go on, and i understand in this case that we did actually follow up with several inquiries to them asking for more information about this case. and this is not an unusual sequence of events. we have, after all, a pretty good relationship with the russians on counterterrorism, certainly compared to our relationship on a number of other issues. but when you're dealing with these old cold war foes, sometimes the relationships can be frosty. there's a lot of concern about what they're up to, what are the sources and methods, what are they trying to draw out of us. so often the exchange is not nearly as fruitful as it would be, say, between the united states and some of its western european partners or other friendly countries around the world. so i'm sure there will be an investigation of some kind. there will be questions to be answered. but it is not unusual to have

this kind of exchange kind of come to a dead end with the russians. >> all right, daniel, thank you so much. we'll have you on again soon. an animal in the ring. that's how one of the sources describes the terror suspect. we'll take you to the gym where he used to train. that's next. 5% lower copays." as a preferred pharmacy, walgreens can save you as much as 75% compared to other select pharmacies. walgreens, at the corner of happy and healthy.

well om back to "the lead." before he was a terror suspect, tamerlan tsarnaev was a monster in the boxing ring. the world knew of his brutality, the boxing community here in

boston took note of tamerlan tsarnaev. he fought in bouts all will over town and tournaments around the country, even competing in the 2009 golden gloves championships. tamerlan tsarnaev told one interviewer he aspired to box on the u.s. olympic team, but that dream stalled after his petition for citizenship was denied. this is the mixed martial arts gymnasium in austin, massachusetts, where tamerlan used to work out. he was said to not have a lot of respect for trainers at other gyms because their language was foul, they weren't supposed to be clean. he would work out here a lot. he was rar regarded as one of if not the best boxer here, though his nose was broken a few years ago here. he disappeared ushgs but' reappeared a few weeks ago, he walked around as if he owned the place, was asked to leave because he was being disrespectful to others working out at the gym. in fact, just a few days ago, law enforcement came by and took

the surveillance equipment from this gym in part of their investigation. one fellow boxer with whom we spoke told us tsarnaev struck an intimidating figure in the gym, calling him a premier athlete with a reputation as a beast, an animal in the ring. trainer eddie bishop traveled with tsarnaev to a national competition. you said you thought he was eccentric from the moment you met him. >> yeah. he came into the fight, and he had cowboy boots on and leather pants, and he had a special hat, funny hat. >> bishop says tsarnaev was strong but not tenacious. >> he had a really big punch. he knocked a lot of people out, but, you know, he lacked that fighter's heart, you know? >> what do you mean? >> you know, if he couldn't get you out of there, he quit. >> up next, call it big brother, call it the technology that helped catch two terror

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the boston terrorism investigation reminds us big brother is watching. surveillance cameras gave law enforcement some of their best clues in identifying the men they say were behind the attacks. and while, of course, we're grateful the suspects were found, the issue raises serious questions about privacy. slate columnist says, if anything, big cities need even more surveillance cameras because the benefits outweighs

the whirisk. he joins us from l.a. you argue cameras should be installed everywhere, but let's be honest. they can't catch everything. >> yeah, they can't catch everything, but after something goes down, they're a really good way to figure out what happened, and they can also -- there's lots of evidence suggesting they can also prevent crime before it happens. we've seen this happen in a few major cities in a test in baltimore that the police installed cameras everywhere, and they noticed that violent crime went down by a huge percentage. they've noticed this in places in chicago. so beyond terrorism, there's evidence that these cameras work to, you know, not only catch criminals but to prevent crime from happening in the first place. >> but how do these cameras -- how can you work around serious civil liberties concerns about being watched at all time by government. >> yeah. i mean, the first thing i'd say is that it's sort of too late in

our society to go to a point where we aren't watched at all times. we already are watched not only by our government but mostly by our fellow citizens with cell phone cameras and more. if you're outside, you'll be on camera, maybe not the government's but your friends' and neighbors'. but we can have reasonable rules, you can't get a ticket doing a minor infraction but if you do something big, that there will be lots of people watching in a public place and they may notice you doing something really terrible and stop you before it happens. >> it's an issue we're 0 going to talk about in the days to come. thank you so much. it was supposed to be the site of a celebration, but instead boston's boylston street became a crime scene. but now the fbi is about to hand it back over to the city of boston. we'll bring you that live when it happens, just a few minutes from now.

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